Captain Craig Thurlbourn | I think for me the best thing is creating experiences that guests and the crew will remember for ...

What do you love most about being a superyacht captain?

I think for me the best thing is creating experiences that guests and the crew will remember for years to come. The experiences can be so varied to each person. To each yacht and and where you are in the world as to what you can do, but some of the some of the guests that I've met over the years and have have met again since you know, years later, they often recall events that we've we've undertaken or experiences were put on for them.

Can be a a big party or can be a truly unique one off experience in behind the scenes somewhere where you know normal, wealthy individuals can't truly, truly unique experiences sometimes involving people or places, or ways of getting there. What you do when you're there? I think creating those memories that people will always look back on, you know, we we always when we reminisce with our friends back at home we talk about our experiences of you know childhood and school. And we always love reminiscing during that that time. Do you remember that story from years ago?

And if I can create some of those for my guests primarily, but also for the crew that they can recall amazing things we've achieved, I think they can look back on their careers. The guests can look back on their time owning the vessel, chartering the vessel with a real smile, I think people's. Remember the the standard experiences, not the not the day-to-day stuff, but the the truly unique things. So for me, I love being able to and having some sway over creating those experiences. First of all, imagining what can we do here that's totally different or hasn't been done before or.

You know, can we pull the rabbit out of the hat and then turn it into a dragon in front of their eyes? Can we do something that no one's done or, you know, and, and putting that in motion, making it happen and taking the steps to make that happen? That's what I love about being a super yacht, captain.

How has the superyacht industry changed over the last five years?

Absolutely, yeah, definitely, definitely. Post COVID really, there's there's been too strange there's been those that still cling to the pandemics, rules of isolations and COVID testing, and that if some accruemen test positive for COVID. It's still a thing to land them ashore, to isolate and and to an extent, some owners charter. Some guests still view there to be a bubble. There's those yachts that have continued in in more or less that manner. Of which there's more than you would think. And then there's the rest of the industry which continue, you know, as it was.

Obviously there's been innovation since the pandemic and everything, but that would have happened regardless. So there's those that it's sort of back to business as usual. But there's really those yachts that still exist, quarantine periods, you know, isolation on board, a bubble environment on the vessel. And quite often that's with privately owned vessels. They tend to be more than filtering vessels, but that's a big change because it it's a, there's a permanence about it.

And you know, yacht crew have have a decision to make as to whether they want the traditional, you know, being able to go ashore and and easier transitions between guest on and guest off or whether they their time on board is. More or less physically on board and and they they live, you know, really for their work whilst they're on board the vessel. So I'd say that's been the biggest changes. Some vessels still cling to the, the the COVID isolation parties.

What big challenges do you think yachting will tackle in the next 10 years?

The next 10 years, I mean it sort of links to some of your other questions, but I think we've seen some phenomenal projects come out in the last few years, one of which was this year with with the the fuel celled vessel. Out of the, you know, I really think yachting will get to grips with the the fuel dilemma, the sustainability of shipping and I think we, you know, there's many projects in commercial shipping in, in the merch, the wider merchant name. But I think yachting.

As that unique position of philanthropic owners and principals, who who really want to to have this pinned to their masks, they want to have this as look what I've done for, for shipping. It's a badge of honour and I think. The yards that the the the reef, the shipbuilders, the yacht manufacturers of you know, at the at the cutting edge are really looking to be the ones they're also looking to have this as a badge of honour in their name. So there's a lot of interested parties in making that happen. So I think yachting will.

In the next 10 years, by 2035, we will drive forward, you know, sustainability at sea and much greener ways of moving vessels around. So I'm excited for that. You know, that's definitely a big a huge challenge. The single biggest one we face as an industry. I think the other big challenge is altering. Again, it's touched on by some of your later questions that I'll expand on a bit more, but I think mental health, it's big and we've acknowledged it exists, which is the first part, but we haven't really acknowledged how to deal with that. And I think I'll expand on it later in your questions.

But dealing with psychology, the culture of cycle, how do we create a psychologically safe environment on yachts where the old, the old rules of if you can't pull a 20 hour day or 18 hour day, five days a week, you're soft. And you're not fit for the industry. How can we? And if you're having a bad day, you need to suck it up. How do we dispel that culture? How do we make sure that it's not a perceived culture? Because sometimes the culture doesn't exist. It does not exist in that way at the the.

At the top and there is a willingness to have an open door, but there's still in the junior ranks the perception that you can't display weakness or vulnerability to your, to your seniors, and you must remain tough and stoic throughout. Just, you know, regardless of what you're going up against. So. I think creating that psychological safety and and you know really evolving into the mental health area will be a the second big challenge. And the third one will really be the shifting. Trading patterns of yachts. You know, the Red Sea is developing a huge way.

East Asia is developing in a huge way and it's some massive countries that are yet to even come online. You know what will be happening in India and you know, obviously there's some great Island nations. You know the Maldives are Seychelles, but what will happen if India starts waking up and becomes a giant of a destination? What will happen in South and Central America? You know there's some huge, you know, prospective destinations that are untapped or relatively untapped.

And I think the big challenge will be how does yachting approach these new areas of the world that that the younger wealthy individuals, high net worth individuals wish to explore? How do we make the most of those? How do we still produce what they enjoy in the Cote d'azur and the Caribbean? How do we? Produce that in its own unique way in different parts of the world. So I think those are the three big challenges, but super exciting ones at that.

What design/tech trends have most changed day-to-day operations?

For me, the avit, it's the majority of the change has been in avit. We've only just started scratching the surface of green innovation and for existing vessels, it's very. Token effort in many respects you have to go from the new build phase to make to affect that, so that is not the biggest thing. The biggest thing that affects day-to-day operations on existing vessels and new builds is avit. It's you know, you go on from a cabin where you turn on the light switch physically and you have.

A nice hue of light, but it's the same light now you have interactive cabins, so you you have wall TV's that you can create an entire different ambience. You can you can go to bed under the sea and you can wake up in the jungle if you want to. Every morning you can have a sun rising on your your bulkhead every morning if you so wish. You can watch TV on any wall in your cabin. You can, you know, the the interactivity of of technology now is is unbelievable. What can be done the way people want to record their memories and remember them has definitely changed from.

You know, still photographs or videos, camcorders. Now we have drones. Now we have underwater drones, drones in the air. We have, you know, much more vivid ways to record the memories of of, you know, guest trips. And consequently, there's again, there's two very different sides to that. There's the drone versus the anti drone, which is our own little civilian version of what's happening in the military, where there's the the cat and the mouse, which one's going to develop the technology quicker. So there's there's all that rub of privacy. Versus exposure, so you know, guests want to extremes.

So you know, I think that's definitely changed how we operate, where we operate, where we throw events because guests want to enjoy themselves, but they want to enjoy themselves privately. And it's not so easy to do that when your next door neighbour can put a drone in the sky and come, come take a little sneak peek. So I think that. That's really where designing technology has has altered things in the in the last few years, I would say the most.

What are the most challenging parts of your job — and has that changed?

I would say the most challenging element, which is also the one I enjoy the most is the people. It's you know, everyone is so different. People have different priorities and you know, I mean still the case exists where. People join the yachting industry from other career paths, you know, even the the more standard route of the Merchant Navy, the you know, the cruise ship or the the cargo ship guys that come onto the big boats or you've worked around the Marina.

Even from those relatively, you know shallow sloping entries into yachting where at least you're a seafarer to start with, they require you to take a leap of of faith and and have a certain. Drive about yourself to to progress your career in a in a very unique direction, let alone the the guys that come into the service team on the housekeeping team or into the galley or especially the, you know, DAVIT guys, you know, everyone's got into yachting through their own. Drive and determination there isn't a set career path. It's not like you go to a a college and there's a bespoke course.

It's it's not. Or at least those are very niche areas for for getting into the industry. So everyone on board is an interesting character. Everyone's self driven. Everyone has aspirations. And my biggest challenge, and my my greatest you know, joy as well is seeing those people through the stages in their career encouraging them to develop themselves and and fulfil their potential and also using their enthusiasm and reminding them why, you know. This is why you wanted to be here.

You know, this is, you know, make this and and and a crew member who's doing something they love that's performing a duty. They love that that energy feeds onto the guests and they feel they see the the sparkle in their eye. They feel they're in their positive energy and and the guests therefore enjoy it even more as well. Well, so I think the biggest challenge, but also the most interesting one, the one I enjoy the most, is dealing with the crew and and how do I motivate my team out? You know, we're not always doing glamorous things.

We're not always doing great things that we love and we're going to write home to mum and dad about, you know, often. It's inglorious preparation for the glorious, you know, executions. So you know, reminding crew to stay focused on the, on the, you know, the challenge ahead and why we're doing it and what will be, you know, the benefit afterwards to the operation, to the owner and to themselves. So that's that's. The biggest challenge I would say.

How are new crew different today — skills, mindset, outlook?

Are very different, very different indeed in in outlook and expectation. Initially a lot of this is coloured by social media, where as in all walks of life on social media, the extremes often exist and you have to dig quite deep to find a bit of moderation and you know where. The true centre tends to be you have certain you know some crew who a little naive to the industry who are looking for immensely quick progression in their careers. You know they want to do one season as a deck can suddenly they want to be a boson or the equivalent in the interior.

They they want, they expect huge charter tips when they don't always exist, and there's always the small number, maybe two to three yachts that have absolute, you know, red letter days for their charters. And that gets proliferated across social media. So everybody thinks that's. Standard tip. That's the standard lot. You know, they they get coloured by extreme working hours as well. You know they they think they could be burnout and they they see the extremes. Of course not much of this is down to you know series like below deck.

Or yachting forums, where anonymous posts can can picture the extremes of of the industry so many crew are are coloured by, I would say unrealistic expectations from a timeline point of view, you can achieve an incredible. Amount in yachting if you display a little relative patience. If you accept it's difficult to to get across the concept of what experience is to those that have none. It's only until it's only when you have experience that you understand the benefits of it. And you know, so you have people fresh out of college, fresh out of the, you know, new qualifications.

And they say, well, I'm just as qualified as you. I should be. Why can't I do your job or why can't I do? Why can't I be in charge of the deck or the service or. You know, but you've got to get a little time under your belt. You've got to go through a few challenges and battles and, you know, unique experiences. And then you begin to understand. So I think just tempering the crew expectations initially that patience is required, but you will achieve, you know, great things if you if you're able to.

Play patience and consistency as well, so I think the crew joining now more than ever are looking for, you know, the rapid positives of yachting to to materialise very quickly, I think how?

That being said as well, the expectations from the yacht side is that crew have specialisations. It's it's especially on some of the larger yachts. We're looking for crew that are not just deckhands, but they're divers. Or they have videography experience and in service teams we're looking for spa stewardesses, you know, and and not just one specific thing that, you know, it's an entire profession to be a massage therapist. But we're also looking for massage nails, perhaps someone who does hair. You know, there's a lot. These are all individual professions in their own right ashore and yet.

And yet we're looking for a stewardess. That's a spa masseuse. Or we're looking for a hairdresser, that that can equally cut hair really well or very wealthy individuals. But also to a very high standard, but can also turn down a cabin or service people with finesse. And so we're we're looking for crew that also wear a lot of hats and and almost have dual professions in their employment. So I think the requirements from the yacht side are much more demanding on on the crew, you can no longer.

Just pick up a job because you had a nice conversation at a bar or you you're a friend of a a friend sort of thing. It's no longer good enough to just wash your hair and and brush your teeth. You've got to come with some concrete qualification from the real world. So I think on those two ends. Large expectations in a short period of time, but the yachts are also demanding more of their crew.

How do you handle the “pressure cooker” onboard — morale and conflicts when everyone’s under guest pressure?

I think. I think basically well, just ask the question one more time, sorry. So it's we are in a potentially high pressure environment. However, yeah, I guess many captains answers in a similar way. It's my job to, I mean my you know it's it's a very old school phrase, but you know when a when a deck officer first takes their their first bridge watch. You know, I and I am trying to instil upon them, you know, that they they must call me if they have any concerns whatsoever. I'm and I say to them, I'm here to worry. You are not here to worry. I am. I am. You are not paid enough to.

It's what people told me. You are not paid enough to worry. Second, third mate. Chief officer. The captain is paid enough to worry. He's the only person on board who's paid enough to worry, and by that stage he's probably been involved in things before and and he knows not to worry. He knows to remain balanced and calm. So you know, that's very much about creating that culture throughout the vessel that if you have concerns, if you have problems, ideally if you foresee potential issues or bottlenecks or you know I'm unlikely to get my fresh provisions On this date, we it will be a day later or.

This crew member can't fly in On this date to change out whatever it may be, run it up the food chain, run it up the the command structure and we will find solutions. There are 99999 times out of 1000 there are solutions for things. And if there are not, then it's just about communicating effective expectations to the people. It will affect the the guests, the principal or the, you know, the the client's office. So I think the, the pressure cooker is more about me creating an environment whereby.

Crew know where they can release the pressure, either through speaking to their heads of department, the manager, or coming to me or someone ashore, you know, or if if they foresee something on the horizon that they know. Communicate that in advance and we can better deal with it. Raise the concerns, raise the issues ahead of time and we'll be dealing with the issue much better as far as the crew, you know, enjoying themselves and and being healthy.

You know, I think I think yachting takes a lot of cruel, a lot of autonomy away from people because you're you're, you know, when you're working, you're on the boat. That's the only place you can go where you're you're getting your instructions, where to go, what you have in your limited free time. You should be, you know, within the bounds of the yacht. You know, I'm. I'm not going to push people to go on health kicks or do compulsory gym or go to crew parties involving alcohol. I I allow you know very much what little time crew do have.

I respect that they should spend how they wish to again we. We offer opportunities for crew to partake in things we make sure we have a well stocked gym, plenty of yoga mats and areas of the vessel that can be used for crew to, to maintain healthy body, healthy life. So we make sure the crew food is of a healthy nature, accommodating, you know. The various dietary requirements and and we make sure that you know when there is an opportunity to celebrate, you know something the end of the season or whatever that we that we afford a a broad enough scope for for.

Boosting crew morale, so I think as long as you can create the conditions, the crew will generate their own morale. They will generate their own happiness. They know well what what they get joy out of and they will often, you know, do that even if it's just, you know, let's put some drop costs down. In the guest cinema and won't show a movie and they just want to curl up with under a blanket and watch a movie to just read. And you know, sometimes that's just all they need. So I I try to where possible, allow crew to make their own choices.

With what we have available and as I say, creating the environment where if they feel pressure it goes pressure goes up because that's what, that's what I'm here for, to deal with that and I enjoy the pressure. I enjoy the pressure I enjoy. Interesting scenarios where I'm faced with challenges. That's that's why I'm here. I'm here to meet them. You know, it scratches that itch that I have. Because it 100 percent 100%. Because I'm. I'm a big believer that stress on, you know, pressure becomes stressed when you don't have the tools to deal with the challenge.

But as captains as you alluded to earlier, you know captains have a lot of tools that they're. Dispose of a lot of influence and we can pull strings as long as we can sell the idea to the people paying the bills, we can. We can get things done, you know? So it only becomes stress when things are outside of your your influence or control. But we have so many levers to pull that that's an immensely rare occurrence.

How do you retain high-quality crew?

So sort of touched on it a little bit already. I think when you draw it back to its basic element, it's it's essentially Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So you know, is the food good. Is is the food good on board? It's amazing how poor food or average food or the same, you know, really heated stuff because I I get it, like on Charter chef can only you know, there's only so many chefs. They can only cook for so many, so many meals for so many guests and they've got it so often they'll. Pre prep crew food and then they'll heat it up on the day.

But if you don't have a few varieties of things if you don't have some fresh stuff that goes out it, it can immensely demoralise crew. If you're having Curry for the. 5th time that week. You know, for dinner and you go into bed and everything smells of Curry. You're you know it. It's not a good look. So a little bit more effort. The the crew food and and I've really championed crew food budgets as well the quality of meats that we can get the quality of produce.

You know, nobody wants for maritime consumption, only stamped on the side of their sack of potatoes, which is what I witnessed for maritime and prison consumption only as was something I witnessed on container ships when I was on them. No, nobody wants to see that on the side of a sack of potatoes or a bag of rice. So. You know, championship camping in the quality of produce can really help, and it keeps the chefs motivated as well, working with good produce means they'll be more motivated to put out some good quality crew food.

And so if you're feeding the crew well and healthily, that's a huge help, I think. You know, keeping the place clean, not living in, you know, behind the scenes can get messy, especially when you've just thrown a large event. But within a reasonable amount of time that needs to be reset. But if back of house is looking clean, you know just the the age-old, the age-old, shattered average. Just make your bed in the morning. If you've made your bed, you've already done something good for the day and you you move forward from there. You know you're already on winning.

You've already won some small little battle. You're not returning to your cabinet state, you know, so I think always. And I I try to make my own bed before the housekeepers come in and judge my towel folding. None. My my average is 7 out of 10, but they are harsh. I'd like to think I'm only 8.5, but you know and and on top, you know, aside from the base of the pyramid of food, obviously safety comes in as well and.

Having you know, crew crew want to feel safe, they want to feel that that, you know, the idea that crew don't like fire drills or crew don't like safety training is again an old school theory crew want to know they want to be professional. They want to be good at their job and. And making safe championing safety and instilling in each crew member that it's not just for the captain and the safety officer to to care about safety, it's for all of you. You all have a part to play without you. We're on unsafe vessel with all of you. We are we are safe.

So giving them agency to to, you know, create a safe environment and suggest ideas I think can really help them and and being clear with what is safe and what is unsafe and where that line is and the consequences if they step outside of it. You know you will wear a harness when you go on the brow you will have a second line attached.

Life jacket so it's self fulfilling and they feel better about themselves and again that creates a safety and secure environment for them to to work aboard and we don't want people going to see with wide eyes, you know going goodness is the captain going to, you know, put us in an unsafe. Place again. You know, we so safety food and then we you move higher up the pyramid of you know essentially realising your potential you know to retain good crude there has to be a career path for them now obviously as I alluded to earlier it needs to be.

Tempered in timeline, but or rooted in a in a realistic time frame. But if you set a a clear path and you set goals for every time a crew member returns like this trip, I want to see you focus on this or what do you want to do quite often for deck cans? It's for example. I want to be able to drive the the guest tenders. OK, well this this trip will put you in our little support tender that runs around doing garbage and provisions and running crew ashore and back. And then if you do really well this trip, the next trip will start training you on the the boss's limo.

And you know, we'll work you up. Up the chain in that regard and having a little ship specific training record book that you know this deck can is now allowed to use that crane and to to, you know, operate that tender and for service stewardesses as well. You know it's you will understudy the senior service or whoever it may be to do setups. And then we'll put you on breakfast setup so you can make little floral designs.

You can decide which, which look we're going for today based upon where we are and what's on for the day and things like that, allowing them a little bit of a little bit of input into what, how things go and I think. A big thing is as well, encouraging crew to raise ideas and suggestions. I will, I say, to crew. I'll always listen to your idea once, so make it good because we don't have all day-to-day options. We have to choose eight direction. And often choosing no direction and deliberating is worse than choosing.

The you know there's the second best option, so you know, make it a good pitch and if it's a 5050 decision, you know, I want to pull the green napkins as opposed to the blue then. Yeah, good idea. Let's let's do that and let me know how it goes afterwards or. I'm thinking to drop the crew member there first, then pick up the provisions. Or do I pick up the provisions first, then drop the crew member, you know? OK, well, which one do you suggest and why? And if it's really no big issue, allow them the agency to to, you know, carry out their their decision and then afterwards how did it go?

Oh well. I should have actually dropped the crew member off after because they could have helped me know provisions. Oh, well, now you know, for next time you know. So all these little things, the more you empower crew and the more almost laissez faire you are. Where possible, with with management decisions, with with. You know the the general day-to-day running, the more they feel they're involved in decision making, they can affect their work environment and they can have positive outcomes and they can they grow and they feel like they're more responsible invested in things.

If I'm just saying every day. You do ABCD in that order. They you know, they become disengaged. Crew members don't feel like they're they're involved or they can have an impact one way or the other. They're just a drone. Whereas if you allow that, if you say to the crew, we need to achieve ABCD today. The order you do it in is up to you, but it must will be done today. Then they might choose a different order for things, but at least they're allowed input. So I think keeping good crew motivated involves short term.

You know the immediate sort of day-to-day stuff them them, allowing them, encouraging them to have decisions to make decisions. Decisions on the day-to-day things and the order of things. As long as they can pitch you their idea and it makes sense within reason, let them go for it and longer term, allowing them to have a trip, trip development and growth, you know, certainly not the same thing in our galleys, we. You know, there might be a young chef who's coming in and doesn't know much about seafood or doesn't know much about Japanese cuisine.

Well, if he's proving himself day-to-day, the head chef will give some time to him and he'll say, look, this trip, I want to see you producing some good sushi, and I will help you do that. So by the end of. The next two trips you'll be proficient in Japanese cuisine, you know, and we'll supplement that, perhaps with a training course as well at the end. So really, really hone your technique and then you can come back and then you can be the one that does sushi next year for the guests and all that. So. There's a whole pathway you can you can sell a crew member to their development.

It requires them to be motivated to do it. But if you lay the pathway based on what they aspire to, it keeps them driven. It keeps them growing. You must always have a bit of headroom for them to grow on board. So I think that's very important.

Any mentoring examples you’ve seen or been part of (formal or informal)?

Yeah, mentoring is almost every day, almost every day and and. It it can be, it can be and and just sometimes just standing for 10 minutes, having small talk with crew can bring out larger subjects about their personal life or their, you know, their their work, their professional life. I love seeing, you know, it takes years to manifest. But I love seeing. Seeing the growth in people, I love seeing a debt can complete their officer licence. I love seeing a junior officer that I've sell with before.

I love being able to promote them up and see them become a chief officer, you know, and serve under me. I love seeing people's careers flourishing and. Really champion people and and and they hitched. You know, I I've done it in the past. I've hitched my cart to a a good captain's horse knowing it, you know, this is my mentor. And and I I want to. I want to please them. I want to do well by them. I want to be loyal to them and and.

You know, they will see my career flourish and offer me opportunity and it saw me, you know, I stayed 10 years on one yacht from Third Officer up to Chief officer and it was because there was good mentoring, good examples of people who I worked with above me and they they kept training me through. Who they kept allowing me the opportunity to do more and more. So I've lived through that myself. I'm a product of that system. So who would I be to pull the ladder up that I climbed up myself? So, you know, I'm very much an advocate for that. If people are loyal and.

Energetic and and motivated and consistent, then their path will be clear and they I'll help them climb the ladder and I'll give them the same good advice that I received as well. So mentoring it really is a day-to-day thing. And you know a periodic thing as well. You know, I I regularly have, you know, good chief officers who want to take the next step to Captain, just asking what should I be looking at next? What should I be looking at next? And we we set them goals, set them paths and at all levels from debt can to chief of to head of department level.

They should all be open to to growth and and encouragement.

Mental health and burnout — how do you support your crew (and yourself)?

Yeah. So, you know, protecting crew against burnout and mental health build up. It's amazing how often. I mean it's it's a bit cliche, but mental health is all in your head and quite often. Small things that crew don't say can build up to become huge issues. I I quite recently actually two weeks ago we had a a minor medical incident, but it involved getting some shoreside support or not on my, I'd say moderate medical incident. And I like to debrief after these things, one-on-one with the nurse who I had on board dealing with the incident at the time, and I called her up.

That even because it happened at night time, of course. Never during the working day. And when I called her up at the ungodly hour, when everything was done and dusted and everyone was happy and healthy and said I'd like to do a debrief now and I started it and she said cat, she was brave enough because she's a nurse and been raised in a medical environment. They always do debriefs and they're they're used to, you know, speaking with their doctors, their senior matrons and all that on the ward.

They they are very nurses, typically are comfortable, as are like officers and people that have come from the Merchant Navy there. It's in their culture to. Speak out in a deep during a debrief. They know that they will be heard properly and the nurse said to the captain. Am I in trouble? Have I done something wrong? I said no, not at all. I just like to debrief so you know, we understand what went well. What we could work on better in the future. And what more you might need from me. She said.

To be honest, I prefer debriefing a day after because my emotions, my adrenaline is wearing off and you know I, you know, I don't feel entirely comfortable speaking at the moment. I said OK, that's fine. Let me just get my one key point across and then let's do our big debrief tomorrow. You're on board, so perhaps you wouldn't pass her probation period and she could have just gone away having not if she wasn't brave enough to speak to me, confident enough to speak to me, she could have gone away thinking I'm doing a bad job. My captain's going to find me.

I need to find another job, and she might have, you know, imagine that happened 3 or 4 * / a season. For three or four medical things that we do is she might think God the captain hates me. I'm going to look for. I'm going to resign. I can't stick this out. Whereas a very simple conversation of how she prefers to be communicated with, you know, perhaps let's sleep on it and speak the next day just completely alleviated that so.

People build things up in in their head that especially if there's any, it happens as well with crew members, who perhaps there's junior crew, that there's a management style of their superior who that they don't like. Perhaps there's a someone who's a little overbearing, although, you know, the junior junior managers often. And go through a growth phase where they they learn about communicating with different people, different cultures, different styles and initially they start off with. I only communicate in my way and they end up learning to adjust their style.

But that growth means that they often. We need feedback from the junior ranks as to that they spoke to me a bit harsh and perhaps it wasn't warranted. I don't appreciate being communicated with them that way, but it requires the junior crew to to speak up and quite often there's the there can be the culture whereby. Junior crew feel like, well, they've just been promoted. That means management likes and that means management protects them from everything and we can't speak up because we don't want to it to be a them versus US environment. So I think you know I I have regular briefings with.

The junior crew that about debriefing and I bring up scenarios like how the nurse was and I bring up like do debriefs little and often. I said at the end of every manoeuvre myself, the chief officer and the the station's fallen off. We'll have a little debrief, I said. There's 3 levels of debriefing. There is the the large group, like perhaps at the end of a fire drill or at the end of a strip where you're going to get some general points across, but that's very low value as far as feedback because it's very rare for someone to stick their hand up and say I have a point to me.

Captain in front of a group of 30-40. Fifty people. So that's a low value as far as feedback, but reasonable value as far as just getting your points out as a manager. A moderate level debrief is where there's, let's say three to four of you. Where there can be some feedback come and people can feel a bit empowered. The highest, the highest level of feedback you can receive as a manager is a is a one-on-one that's just in a room with two of you and it's open and calm and feel free to speak whatever's said in here. We'll stay in here and we'll just deal with you know how we felt it went.

And so you know, you get so much value from that. And I I encourage my managers on board the boat, my team leaders to have one on ones with their crew after key events or just once a trip or to once a month to just. See where their crews heads at, see if they have any concerns, any questions, and that's where crew can give you that look. Like, I don't know if to say it or not. And then you can really come on speak. You know this is an open forum. Say what you like. Please, I I urge you like get it off your chest. And it's amazing how light they feel afterwards.

They feel they're holding this burden due to cultural perceptions that I can't speak out against my manager or I can't give some feedback. Often the feedback is so it's it's a coaching point. It's. You know, helps us to train our managers and and none of us are infallible. It helps me to learn as well and you know, and if I'm capable of listening to my my nurse and taking a little feedback on how she prefers to be communicated with so she's more effective if I can listen to that than any.

The manager can listen to a little bit of feedback, take it in the right way and and I find that just debriefing can alleviate that pressure to do with mental health encourages British to speak out. Now obviously there's other sides of mental health where you know crew. Are suffering something very personal to them. There are help lines out there nowadays that crew use and again just really encouraging them to use them. They're on the notice board. It's not just in the place of where where wallpaper or paint would be it. It's a meaningful number like call it. It's free, it's available and.

There is still a bit of a stigma against reaching out for help, so just trying to continually remind crew just routinely remind crew that it is OK and I I hope you do reach out for help. I hope you do. Feel confident enough to speak out. I think that's the main thing is people just build things up inside and then they explode when really it was just a little kettle whistling. You know, just open the valve, just open the valve, she'll whistle and we'll we'll deal with the, you know, the minor thing. If you shut that Valve, it's going to blow up so little and often little and often.

Then you can really address mental health, you know, concerns, and it comes back to really psychological safety is is the keyword. Feeling that I am safe to speak out, there will be no impact on my on how management views me. If I raise a concern, I will be listened to, I will be taken seriously. If they disagree with me, they will. They will make some points, but it will be in a calm way. It will not be in a. You know, I will not be humiliated. I might learn something. I might grow from this experience. It's that psychological safety that is key to to creating on board.

How have you handled unusual guest requests without compromising safety — and when did you have to say no?

So first and foremost, whenever a guest has a crazy request and I've had a few or a requirement that initially seems unsurmountable, we will always attack it with an attitude of we will try our utmost to achieve this. Let me go away. I'll have to make some calls. I'll have to, you know, get together with my Hobbs to really think about this. But we will do our utmost best to make this happen. We want to positively meet your requests as wild as they are. And often what can seem impossible can be achieved if you build.

If you break it down to the bite size components, you know, as you say, the first thing it needs to be safe. It needs to involve all interested parties, and that requires a lot of phone calls, a lot of liaisons. As long as you can get on board, as long as you have a good ships agent, as long as you have an amenable flag state that are open to conversations about unique setups and you have a good relationship with local authorities, you can. It's amazing what you can achieve. It is amazing. I've, you know, I've had one scenario.

Shan't be too specific, but essentially our our principal guests wish to show off to some of his friends, so he thought he would. Take care and this was many years ago. Not when I've been captain, but it's something that I I was part of. I was the chief officer at the time and so took a helicopter in. This was around a Mediterranean destination. Took a helicopter flight, did a loop of the boat and then one and then there was some synchronised swimmers that we'd organised out at out, you know, about 500 metres off the boat which just happened to be in a little bit of a ferry route.

So synchronised swimmers in a ferry route and and they would spell out some initials and in a heart shape and then the helicopter would go around land on our oh there was. Oh yeah, there was also. Yeah. We also, I should have mentioned before, we also had flowers on the helipad spelling out some words. So large flowers on the helipad, so went around and enjoyed the flowers on the helipad then. Went to the sink swimmers as soon as the the floral display had been enjoyed.

We obviously had to clean that deck and do a full suite to make sure of the the Helideck landing officer to make sure it was safe to land. So while I was looking at the synchronised swimmers. Then did another round of the boat landed on the helipad, came out, walked straight through the boat from the Ford helipad. Down off where there was a pool cover over a pool containing 101 helium filled balloons, which then heart-shaped which all went into the sky and we got. Permission from the agent local authorities to launch. You know, 101 red balloons in the air and then.

The the guest in question then wanted to to really impress his friends, so pulled his shirt off, jumped in the pool and retrieved at the bottom of the pool a big iceberg which we we bought a load of ice. And retrieved it to the surface. Then we helped to carry it out. And in this ice was some gifts for his friends. So we also had a we also had a diver on standby as well in case there's any complications with ripping off of the shirt and jumping in the pole and. Being around ice, so all of that happened.

I mean we we informed the local authorities of what we plan to do, they advised the ferry companies and they advised us of the ferry schedule, which meant that we can actually tailor the the timing of the event for. Outside of the ferry, the ferries passing that point, we got permission to release the balloons. And you know, we as well. All these things, they always start with a risk assessment. So you're assessing the risk the, you know, severity, the likelihood and you're you're taking mitting. You know, you're taking mitigating factors, so.

We could have just ignored the ferry routes and bludgeoned on, but that would have been grotesquely unsafe for the poor synchronised swimmers, with a standby, even though the standby tender was there for them. So we we really work closely with the local authorities on that one. I've also, in other scenarios had firework displays ashore on barges. Obviously you have to work very closely. See the authorities for that? Not just around the fire hazards, but disturbing the locals and disturbing the peace. And we don't, you know, we want to be welcomed back to these places.

We want to be over, be seen in a positive light. So we don't want to be disturbing the locals. Unduly, for sure, you know I've been can is always a great spot at the end of the Film Festival, where sometimes these yachts throw big parties and you have way over the number of guests that you're permitted to have. So again, have a conversation with Flag State. Have a dispensation put in place and again work with the local authorities. Work with the local companies. We, you know, often these there's there's ferries coming in and out of these little places.

These ports around the Mediterranean, that they're quite small ferries to local islands and all that. And they stop operating. At certain times, why not engage them, pay their pay for their services and they can provide the additional life saving capacity that you would require in the event of an emergency. So you're not only benefiting the local community, putting some money back into it?

You're using the local talent, giving them a bit more money, but you're creating a safe environment and who better to pick you up from the stern if there's a real issue than a local ferry captain and his team who are well versed? Where to where to drop you off and the and the waters around there so. You know you can work together with a lot of people and bring things together.

It takes a little time, takes a lot of phone calls, but these things can be done in a Safeway, but engage with your flag state, you know, either directly or through your DPA and and the local authorities bring them with you on the journey because they want to also. Create unique experiences. They want to be able to sell what you can do in this port. What you can do in this part of the world. You know, if you can sell, if you can sell that event. If they can say to other boats. Yes, we carried this out already before earlier this season, so that won't be a problem. This is what you have to do.

What a great place to to revisit on a charter yacht or with your owner. You know, the next year's with some new guests, so it benefits everybody to to involve all the interested parties. So it absolutely can be done. Now in the event that you cannot, you absolutely cannot do this thing for the guests. You know, helicopters in the Maldives, for example, are banned. You can't. You just cannot use them. So you know, you just have to be clear about. I'm very sorry. This is the reason why it's generally some local rules, national or local rules, that prohibit it.

You know, as long as you've tried, as long as you've demonstrated willing there was actually, you know, we we worked very, very closely and somehow I'll touch on a little later in the interview. But we work sometimes, especially in countries that are not. Typical for super yachts to visit the local authorities and even the national authorities of these countries are very keen to work together with super yachts to pull off unique experiences to open up their country so we can tell others. And I was actually my first command involved.

Operations out in East Asia, around Japan, around South Korea, and we actually met with some very senior figures in the maritime and fishing in Fishing ministry in South Korea and. Explain to them what a typical yacht operation was. We showed our qualifications, our intentions and they actually amended their own maritime rules to accommodate our operation, because initially their initial starting point from the authorities was. You can only anchor in quarantine anchorages. You have to use customs vessels only, not your own tenders.

And once your guests have gone ashore once, they must come back and then you must leave to go to another port. They wanted to treat us like a cruise ship or a ferry. Now obviously that's completely unfeasible for super yachts, so. But they really wanted our customs, so we really worked together and had conversations with them. We were transparent with what we wanted to achieve and why and and they, you know, obviously keeping the owners privacy intact, but they they wanted to work with us and they they amended their rules to accommodate. What was reasonable and what was risk assessed?

So if you go to the authorities with a plan and it's not an unreasonable one, it's amazing what you can you can achieve. So you know, it's a rare occasion where you say I'm so sorry to the owner. We cannot achieve what you want and again you never say we cannot achieve what you want. You say we can't achieve absolutely everything you've requested. However, we can do this, this and this always, always deflect away from. Not being able to do something with alternatives or with we can achieve 80% of the plan.

Are younger UHNW owners using yachts differently?

I would say yachting always. I mean, it's easy for me to say, yeah, they're doing this and they're doing that. They're exploring the world. There's always been owners. In fact, I was, I was at Monaco yacht show last year and there was an inspirational talk on Explorer Yachts actually from the owner of an explorer yacht. And the an older gentleman in his in his 60s, he had the biggest glint in his eye. He had the best life and he was doing it 30 years ago. You know, when yachting was in its infancy. So the idea that the younger generation want to explore more. I disagree with your owners.

Yachts are as unique as their owners are. Of course, there's new technology that we can the owners want to see use. There's new toys, there's submarines. Now there's videography as we touched on earlier. But I would say that probably, and even even you know when this when this owner was talking about his experiences on his 50 metre, you know decades ago he was talking even then about what owners seem to champion now more and more, which is leaving a positive impact. In the local community and achieving some something philanthropic whilst calling out a destination.

So he was talking about that 20-30 years ago. It did exist, but it's more, I'd say it's pushed slightly further forward to the priority list now so. I think guests, a lot of guests do want to see that they are achieving some good. The more remote locations they go, the more they want to have a positive impact on the community that that can involve anything from providing some. Resources to local island communities that don't have much, you know, water makers or even something as simple as plastic containers so they can store things in.

They can store water in something as simple as that can really turn a poor island community around. And help them and just purchasing. Purchase some mud crabs. Purchase some some fish they caught, you know, and and be a part of it. And chances are they'll probably tell you where the best snorkel spot is and the best beaches or the best stuff is. So the more you can engage with them and and.

What are your thoughts on the mounting regulatory load, and how do you manage it?

Well, most shipping regulations were born out of a disaster, so skipping shipping in general is very reactive, not proactive. I would say, so they normally exist for a good reason, and understanding the reason before you bemoan the the regulation. Is a good place to start, because often it there was actually a little debate on the captain's forum. I was on about. Is there any point to signing up to or would it impact your decision to sign for a flag state that does not mandate MLC? And a lot of captains are advocating. It's irrelevant. We would hold our own standards anyway.

We we hold the standards equivalent anyway, and I advocated for flag states that hold MLC compliance, or at least. Have a have a notation that yes, you're with a flag that doesn't require MLC. However, you are signed up to it regardless to the requirements. So when a surveyor comes on, they take that into account and you know we had. It was sort of a tip of an iceberg thing. But ultimately, I think the majority of regulations are not overbearing. They they touch on important subjects.

However, sometimes the way they are, the way they are interpreted, at least initially by authorities, can be a little overbearing and burdensome burdens. Needlessly burdensome. I know in the oil and gas industry there has been pushed back on some of the ways permits are written. Are they actually beneficial for safety and for the environment? For, you know, humans and the environment and the the. The assets or are they just creating paperwork for lawyers? Are they just creating paperwork for paperwork's sake? What is the meaningful outcome of a box? You're ticking.

What is the meaningful action that must take place in order to tick this box? Or are you just doing something that? Has already been covered and they they you know, there is a little bit of pushback on over burdensome methods of meeting the requirements versus actually just having a fresh read of the the what are they actually, what do the regulations actually want us to do. And how can we meet that in an efficient way? So I I would. I don't. Yeah, I'm I'm quite an advocate for regulation.

I think it's it's important especially internationally as as yachts operate internationally to have a baseline standard. That we that we aspire to, you know, we hope to attain and there's no problem with meeting that they're generally maritime rules are fairly flexible so as to, you know, a fair they start with quite a low bar and ratchet up to try and involve all of the stakeholders because there's a big wide community and. And shipping so I don't particularly have any concerns about, you know, or about increased regulatory workload.

I think they're things that typically happened on well run vessels anyway. And just putting an official regulation to it doesn't really add too much in the, you know, to my paperwork, I would say. So I'm I'm more of an advocate than than arguing against it.

Will environmental regulations affect the future of yachting?

Well, the I I would say not as much as the pioneering owners already are. I mean, we've just had, we've just had Cosmos project Cosmos launched very, very recently out of a prominent shipyard. You know, first fuel cell technology on a on a fully operational motor yacht. We've already had black Pearl out for years now. The iconic sailing yacht, you know, she's totally green. You know, other than manoeuvring in and off on and off of a berth. She doesn't need any, you know, fuel generated, like diesel generated power whatsoever to operate. She has a solar cell, tails.

She can trail her propellers to to generate at night whilst under sail. So she's a in theory a totally. Zero CO2 emission vessel went under operation other than briefly from manoeuvring alongside, so this has already happened without the regulation these yachts have already come out, so I I would I would sort of argue that. For some in the industry, they're already way ahead of the regulation they they will be the standard on which the regulation ends up being written.

So in a way, we're sort of writing our own regulations based on the more philanthropic and environmentally conscious owners out there. That being said, there's the other half of the the other part of the industry that just wants to keep burning the diesel and and we'll do what's required. But I think the more pioneering vessel owners there are yacht owners, there are the cheaper, this technology will become the more ubiquitous and eventually it will just be the. 02 thing anyway, so you will just go for a fuel cell powered vessel. So, you know, I think it will impact. Oh, hello.

Are the current environmental rules effective at protecting the environment — and are they consistently enforced?

We're all on cells now, diesel diesel vessels up the beach, you know, to the Braden's yard, you have to bring, you know, when I'm trying to often link it back to when you're trying to change a culture, either on board of a yacht that you've. I've I've started on as a master and I I don't like aspect of the culture you want to bring people with you. You don't want to force people under pain of fines or you know, job security or anything you you don't want to bring the stick, you want them to take the carrot.

So I think if we want to bring the entire industry with us, we have to do it in a in a shallow shelving manner. We can't just have this hard line approach and and I think environmentalists go about this the wrong way because they they at the extreme level they are. Not they are. They are just completely. Non pragmatic and that they have no interest in seeing the industry continue or cars remain on the road or any aeroplanes remaining in the sky, they have no they have no desire. They just want to see things go green and that's the end of it.

And that that's a little too evangelical for me, I think. If I want to change a culture on board, it does not start with changing the crew. It starts with working together with the crew to to explain what my my thoughts are on things and to to often dig into their own motivations I I found. Slightly off topic, but I found I I joined one vessel before as a captain and I found the safety culture was horrendous. I won't go into specific details but I was really not happy with it. I didn't stack a single person, not a single person lost their job, not a single person.

Received the formal warning or formal disciplinary from me because I worked together with him. I I took it right back to tell me about your background to the the safety officer and the people, the senior people, and all of them were from solid Merchant Navy backgrounds, all of them. Were on vessels that absolutely had good safety cultures. What yachts were you on previously, you know? Well, reputable yachts, I said. So what's going on here? Why am I? Why have you got that background? Why do you have that underpinning knowledge and that underpinning desire to?

To be safe, and yet we're not seeing that demonstrated here, what's happened and then they come out with the excuses, the reasons their own justifications. Partly it was wasn't supported by the previous captain or the the previous, you know, owner or the previous set. There's always excuses. But I said well, we can set our own if if. Certain stakeholders don't want this standard. We can still set it ourselves. We can go above the minimum and we should aspire to that, and we should be proud of our safety culture here, and I've even had one owner before. Tell me.

One of my concerns about this vessel is the the amount of insurance claims for medical reasons. So I want to see that cut down and that was to do with the safety culture and you know, I said the idea that the owner isn't interested in this is is frankly not accurate. The owner has. Made it one of one of priorities that he wants to see me tackle on board is the amount of medical issues and and injuries we're sustaining and I halved it within a year, you know, because people want to do, people want to do better. People want to be better.

They just want to have someone championing it, championing it and I think I think that that is a similar philosophy to dealing with the environment. Most people would rather live in a clean. A clean air, a clean environment with low pollution, you know, healthy drinking water that they can have from a tap, not a glass bottle. And people want to live in that kind of world. And reminding people of what they would ideally have. Can encourage them to to take the steps necessary and I think with the the shipping industry you know is is no different to that.

But you have to go with them on this journey you have to, you know, take them there. You can't say you must, you must be green or. Your you know your ship will no longer function. You can't just browbeat people into it. You have to encourage them to come with you on that journey. So it is absolutely possible it will happen. A lot of people in yachting from the owners, first and foremost, down to the crew that work on them, want to work on a. And eco friendly on a green vessel, they want to work on a yacht that they can tell their their loved ones. My yacht is green. Our CO2 impact was this.

You know, we pay carbon tax and it went on this development for a hydroelectric dam or something. Sure that benefited a community elsewhere. You know there are positive. That you can take, you know, and I and I do think the industry will go with it. But you know, Rome wasn't built in a day, you know, and and brick by brick it will be.

What changes would you implement now to make yachting more sustainable?

I think we'll get a lot of the best ideas will come from this Monaco yacht show. They're calling it blue wake now, and last year it was called the Sustainability Hub and there was still a lot of. There was still a lot of like very sort of out there ideas, things that hadn't completely manifested yet. I think the more than ever with the launch of Cosmos and with other great yachts out there that are already a green and demonstrating yachts can absolutely operate in a green manner.

I think you're going to go from these theories to actually cast iron, you know, solid steel solutions that shipyards can build now. So when you're when you're selling a project to an owner, I mean, it really has to start at the new build side, in my opinion, it has to start as. This is a green concert, and eventually there'll be enough new builds that suddenly reef retrofit can take place at once. You're at a stage where you can retrofit fuel cell engines or fuel cell power, I should say. Then all of a sudden you have selling points for existing yachts, existing vessels.

If you can change your sale, your sale your yacht sales from a regular canvas to to photo cells that can generate electricity, then how do we wire that in? Does it mean we need to change our masks? You know, all that required infrastructure, the more. New boats that come out like that, the more the infrastructure can change, the more the knowledge changes and the the competency of those installing these systems can change and then you'll end up with half of the mast rattling around the South Coast of France, having solar cells instead of sails or solar sails, I should say. But it's.

At the new build phase, in my opinion, and then it branches out to refit and then before you know it, you have a very green Mediterranean, very green Caribbean and the rest of the world.

Are rules applied consistently from country to country?

I think I skipped over your question on is it consistent between countries? I would say absolutely, absolutely not. It is not consistent between countries. The interpretation is wildly different. Some care greatly and enforce. Strictly, they have. You know, you'll see when you enter a coastal states waters, you will see a A Coast Guard plane flying overhead. Just tracking. Are you leaving pollutant, are you? You know pumping oil? Are you washing your bill? You washing your tanks out in improperly? They will be checking for things.

There's other coastal states that really have no care whatsoever, and you can tell as soon as you go to an anchorage or go alongside somewhere. You can see the floating garbage in the water. So there are two very different extremes, and it varies country to country.

Have hybrid propulsion or navigation systems changed your role as captain?

Or, to be honest, I and I I find myself the more technology there is, the more electronic chart systems, the more for some reason I'm a little old school. I was raised, I was at sea at 16 at an age where electronic charts did not exist. Where there were many Mariners who used to take star sites to check the GPS was accurate, where there was more belief in themselves and their navigational abilities than that of the satellite in the sky. Poppings pinging some some things at certain times. So and and I always revert back to.

There was a great book for teaching or briefing, helping, helping prospective officer and Master Mariner candidates before their oral exam. Called the Mcneil's seamanship examiner, and the first part it had a little motivational paragraph before each section of opposite or watch Chief Officer and master, and the little paragraph before the master training syllabus was.

Essentially, I'm paraphrasing a little, but a master should first and foremost be a seaman, and so regardless of all the technology, regardless of all the age navigation, regardless of all of the the computer telling me I can do this and executing that on autopilot and in full dynamic positioning. I need to be a mariner. I need to be able to take it, strip it right back to basics. I mean it happens around much of the world now and there's a lot of retrospective guidance notices out now and company memos about GPS spoofing.

And it's quite funny because and then and basically when a country interferes in the GPS signal or a, you know. An organisation with poor intent for world shipping messes with the GPS signal, throws vessels off track either gently to lure them into different territorial waters, or to just throw them completely over central Africa somewhere, so or Siberia. And when the GPS goes off, it's funny. Some of the junior officers turn around as if we've just lost the ability to know which way is up. And you go back to the the traditional methods. You still have your radar, you still have your fixes.

You still have your gyro. Embedding your speed log, there are many ways to you know to fix your position. We just have to remember what they are and use them and get familiar with them so you know I have found that I've actually been, let's say, pushing back a little against the the. The tide of technology and reminding my I find myself reminding my office as my junior officers especially, that they need to be Mariner. They need to be seamen before they are operators of electronic and digital systems. We need to be able to. Yeah, this boat from A to B, it's not a. It's not a.

It's not an overly complex thing. If you lose certain systems on board, there's backups, there's plan BS, there's plan CS, there's plan DS. There's many ways to to make a boat, have a boat go from A to B. And you know, it's good to still be traditional. It's good to have your bridge door open so you can hear what's out there. You can hear the sea. You can feel the wind. You can appreciate the conditions acting upon your vessel. Don't just sit in your air conditioning bridge. And sit and let the computer carry out your your you know your course for you, you know, trust.

Verify your electronic equipment and because of that, I really. I don't think my role as captain has changed. In the years since I've been at sea, and before long before I was captain, it is still essentially the management of people and the safe navigation of the vessel and that will never change. That will never change. In my opinion, there is automation. But again, I don't see that fully removing the master of the vessel, certainly not on super yachts, perhaps other vessels, certainly they're already autonomous, fully autonomous vessels operating in the Baltic Sea in Japan.

Those do exist, and for cargo I can certainly see that being the case. Drone ships, as it were, but for the yacht combination of things. Combination of things really the. The owner needs someone or the Charter needs someone to speak to, to, you know, the human element is what makes yachting great and to lose that human element. I think owners charters would would you know. It would. It would devalue their their experience, I believe.

Any additional thoughts on autonomy or remote monitoring?

And. Yeah. I think sort of spoke to that. I I don't see, I mean, autonomy assists us to spend more time doing other things, which is a bad thing in principle. But at the at the root of it, I think especially in yachting more than any other industry at sea. The room to it still has to be the human element, the human factor, the the human value. And I I may be a little old school in my view, but I don't see that element of it changing. We'll be assisted by more technology, but again, harking back to the seamanship. The McNeil Seaman ship examiner. A master should first and foremost be a seaman and that will never change for in super yachting.

Cybersecurity: is it more of a concern, and how do you protect yacht and guest data?

It's not too much of A concern, to be honest, because we work together with companies that typically operate bank cybersecurity for, for retail banks and private banks, etcetera. So these guys are well versed at. Essentially creating and maintaining a firewall and monitoring a firewall for all of our. You know in everything from Internet traffic to our cloud based systems, more and more, which is the case.

And you know, if there are breaches where you know it's raised to us very swiftly, it's isolated and it's it's dealt with quite effectively and we have pretty robust reporting from these companies. So they're it's their bread and butter. I appreciate it's again one of those cat and mouse games. That there is always a potential risk, but using reputable companies who whose day job is protecting banks, I think we we do as well as we can with that. And so far you know, and I mean if there are critical systems. Then there's already regulations in place, air gapping them from remote Internet access.

And you know, we're very we're very keen to install physical switches that you have to click across to put in a remote access. Line to to our main engine propulsion systems or our our actors systems or, you know navigating systems. Anything to do with the critical operation of the safe operation of the vessel. There is a switch that. Ten turns you off from the Internet. Hard hard switch, not a digital switch, not a software based switch. It is a physical cut in a wire that stops things transmitting, so you know you put that in place and your your operational system stay safe.

I mean most most of our guests and certainly all your principals already have their own teams managing their their own personal device, cybersecurity and their e-mail, cybersecurity, etcetera and. You know whereas for on board we, as I say, we work together with companies that deal with banks mostly. So we're we're pretty comfortable that with cyber security.

What concerns (if any) do you have about misinformation online about superyachts?

I mean, I would say my own concern is much the same as a lot of industries probably that in that generally speaking the extremes are the only ones that get enough air to be portrayed or generally get enough air. So. You either hear about only the fast money, the easy life, the I went surfing with a guest and then they paid me so many thousands in a tip and I'm having the best life ever on Instagram. The extremes. What they're not doing you as the preparation beforehand or the the fact that they're exaggerating certain aspects.

Aspects of that or that they you know, the next three days were not so amazing. You either get that extreme that this is the best life ever or you get the, you know, the horrendous life of, you know, there's low regulation. The captain doesn't care. The boss is a monster. You get all of these. And generally speaking, those sorts of negative the negative press tends to come from anonymous posting and you know in reality no one was ever tried and found guilty of a crime that no one claimed had been committed, you know or no, no one had pitched.

If people don't put their names and things, if they don't step forward and appreciate, it takes prayer to do so, then you know we can't enact change. We can't find things out. And I think online, especially the perception yachting, is at the two extremes. So the best job ever or it's the worst thing that was ever created. And I think the reality. Somewhere in between it's a good balanced job. You can make a career out of it, you know it's it's a fulfilling place to be, but you have to maintain motivation and consistency to to make the most of it.

And it's not going to hand it out to you on a plate. There's a lot of competition and you've got to be motivated and it is run by. Generally speaking, professional people that that want to, you know, enjoy their work but they want to go home to their families as well at the end of the day and and they want to sleep each night with a clean conscience. So I think the vast majority of yachting operates Nice and quietly away from social media. And gets on with the job and it's, you know, it's a shame that this isn't. I mean it's it's boring. It's not a headline sort of thing.

But, you know, I I think, yeah, the perception is is at the extremes. But the reality is very much more in the centre.

What do you think about the growing number of superyacht groups and forums online?

Yeah, I I would say the invite only group, I mean there's there's different levels. If you're a junior crew member, you know there's all sorts of great job forums and advice forums, but like all communities, they're only as good as the people that input into them. So again. Through Anonymous posting the information you get is not necessarily going to be reliable. There are some good crew agencies out there that have a lot of blogs and a lot of things on there, a lot of resources on their websites to to advise crew and I rather than asking you your peers, I would.

Rather go to a professional outfit that for information on starting up in yachting, what to look out for, what to do because they want trustworthy sources again because they have names, they have brands, they have people who. You know, I am Jane Smith, and I work at crew agency XYZ. And you know, this is my thoughts. You know, it's it's someone with a reputation to withhold and and someone with some standing in industry as opposed to an anonymous post recommending speak to Bob or Bill.

About getting a job, so whilst they can be interesting and you know we all we don't mind trolling through some of the the posts of the forums, the name and shame websites. You know forums interesting, but you know it's sort of junk e-mail in many respects because again, it's anonymous posting, there's nameless claims. And again, unless there's, you know, it's just not going to stand up in a court of law. So it's not really going to make the news in my mind. I would say some of the invitation only groups. I'm on a couple of captains forums.

They can be useful especially for finding connections, contacts or recommendations, but again, the people on that group they you know, although initially they may be anonymous, once you start getting deeper information. They will let you know who they are and and very so you can verify things to to check on on information. You're not just getting fed to go anchor up up a Creek without a paddle. So just so you know, yeah, I don't mind the proliferation of them, it it. But I would say go to. Recommended sources with faces and names as opposed to nameless, faceless posts.

Is the public perception of superyachts negative — and should the industry try to improve it?

Well, I think online again there is there can be the extremes. It's the best thing ever for this. Life's amazing below deck sort of style or that it's terrible. Everyone's a monster. It's the creepiest industry I've ever been on. But that's online, I think. To to loop the entire public into. That is, is a little naive, and when you're on the ground hauling into these ports the the I find the inverse is true. There's there are some ports, there are some cities, there are some regions of the world or even whole countries.

That really do openly welcome soup yachts with open arms and and open and want to encourage them. And I spoke a little bit earlier about my experiences in South Korea and Japan. You know, a lot of those places were so welcoming to us and. You know, we the, the mayor, would come out onto the dock and issue a plaque and we're so happy. You're this is your first ever call here. We're so proud that you want to visit our humble city. For whatever reason they would be mighty proud of that. And please tell as many.

Yachts, as you can in the world that you had good fun in this region or this area or my my city I manage. There are a great deal of communities that if we can better champion the benefits yachting can bring which is what we did in South Korea and that's why we ended up speaking with quite high level government officials. To look at, to look at amending their rules, to look at how can they accommodate yachts in a reasonable way that still protects their their own environment and their own way of life, so us out, away from the the websites where it's always so heated and extreme.

I think there is a. There's a great deal of communities out there, great number of communities, a great deal of countries out there that openly welcome super yachts and openly encourage them. There's others that set certain rules when it when it becomes such a popular place. I mean, much of the Mediterranean has had to. Create rules to make it sustainable. Because of, you know, over tourism and things like that, which is real, you know, and and can stand for their sea beds and coastlines. I get that there's nothing wrong with that, but they again, they still.

It's not like they're shearing yachts away. They're just trying to manage it a little more. We don't want crushing confusion at same anchorage. Where 100 yachts are trying to be there needs to be reasonable respect for the local area and the local impact and the volume of super yachts going there. So I again, you know, yes, there's more regulation on the Cote d'azure and around Sardinia, but. You know these areas are not shying away from super yachts, they're championing them very much. It's just it's become such a a large industry now that there has to be some control over it.

There has to be, you know, and and there's nothing. There's nothing wrong with that. But I I think overall the perception of super yachting. Remains, let's say net positive. I think people want to see individuals calling into their their home regions and experiencing the best of what they can offer. The best of the because something has drawn you to that region as a as a high net worth individual, the culture, the cuisine, the. The people, the environment around it and as a as a local to that area, I'd be mighty proud to see a soup yard on on my horizon.

So I think the more that we can champion the better and I think net positive is is how the public perception is is just. Not shouted about.

Magic wand: if you could change one thing about modern yachting, what would it be — and why?

I think we need to get back to yachting is again as I as I started off by saying it's about experiences that people have. It's about memories. People create truly unique experiences they will carry with them. They'll tell their children their grandchildren. And they will be excited about as well and I think. There there tends to be so much focus on systems and technology and toys that it it pulls away from what the essence of yachting has always been, which is the people and the human element of it and I think.

I'm not sure how otherwise I would have shouted about it, but we need to try if I could change one thing about the modern yachting industry, I would bring it back to being more about the people and less about the systems because the human story, the human joy, the human emotion in things. The human philanthropy, the the thought for the environment, the thoughts for the environment, the thoughts for local communities, the experiences and the culture that can be shared and enjoyed. That is all human. That is all totally human experience.

It's and again, much like first and foremost being a seaman. We need to, you know, bring it back to the the essential element of of the sea and and appreciation for the individuals involved in yachting that make it happen. The individual pioneering guests that make you know that build amazing. New vessels that go to explore new players that have a positive impact on communities and the world in general on science. The more we can champion the people, the better.